Reflections & Resolutions: The MPE Boxing Day Special w/ Dr. Tim Fletcher

In this special episode, Dr. Tim Fletcher re-joins the podcast to discuss impressions and takeaways from the first 8 episodes of the Meaningful PE podcast. Other discussion topics include the role of practitioner reflection on their vision for PE, and whether or not MPE is suitable for those who already have found their PE experience meaningful. The episode concludes by setting resolutions of how each of us hopes to continue to explore and pursue ideas related to MPE in 2025. 

Thanks to Isaiah Gleddie for the guitar pieces, SSHRC for some funding and our guests for sharing!

Transcript

Douglas Gleddie: 0:00

Ty, welcome everyone to this special Boxing Day bonus edition of the meaningful podcast experience. We're here, as usual, with Ty and I, and we also have our special guest, Dr Kim Fletcher from Brock University, here with us. And we just thought we would do a little bit of a Christmas present for everyone on Boxing Day. Maybe it's a sale item that you wanted to get. But we're here to just kind of chat through some of the previous episodes of the podcast, what stuck out for us, youknow, where we want to go from here, and then we'll finish up with our exciting new year's resolutions related to meaningful PE, So Tim, I don't think you need to introduce yourself, but maybe you have something, you know, Some key detail you'd like to share, or anything

Tim Fletcher: 1:03

not really about me. Doug, no, I'm I'm fine. Thanks, man, but thank you for the opportunity.

Douglas Gleddie: 1:11

Perfect. And you did just finish your marking, so that's a glorious time of for any any person in academia, is when you finish your term marking. I have a bigger spring in my step than I did earlier this morning, that's for sure. That makes sense. I thought I'd just share a couple of details about the podcast so far, just to kind of kick us off a bit. But we've so we've recordednine episodes, or, sorry, we've released nine episodes. We actually have a couple recorded already that are in kind of on the docket for release in 2025but so far, just from our downloads from the the buzz sprout app here, we've got 1157downloads so far, with the top episode being the one that you were on. Tim the the OGS of meaningful PE is up over 300 now. So that's great to see.And then our other episodes are all right around the 100, 230 mark and growing. We are have been heard in 35 countries and territories and 248 cities,the most recent four new locations have been Belgrad, Oakland, port, Coquitlam and Cartagena,which is kind of fun. And then just looking Scrolling down, we are still 50% Canadian content or Canadian downloads, but the other ones are growing. The top five, not including Canada, would be the United States, United Kingdom, Germany and Australia, but we've also got South Korea, Singapore, Italy, Ireland, Tanzania. So it's, it's kind of neat to see the the spread. I always like the as I mentioned, I think on one of the podcasts, I always like to juxtaposition of cities, where you get a tiny, rural town in northern Alberta, and then you get like, Brooklyn, New York or something. So it's just kind of cool. Maybe Tim, I'll throw it over to you to just kick off, like anything that really stood out for you from any of the episodes, really,and just some some thoughts.

Tim Fletcher: 3:23

Well, if I might be able to just echo some of your thoughts about howhow cool it is to hear the different locations that people are tuning into the podcast andand I'm sure that many of those people, teachers working in schools, which is a huge reason forus as academics and in the meaningful peer group to try to get some of these ideas and the work out in ways that are appealing to a really wide diversity of people and their locations, rather than just a 7000 word academic paper. So yeah, that that's one of the things that stands out to me the most Doug, is just the reach that podcasts have, and so that that's quite cool. One of the things thatmay not be surprising to people who have heard me talk before or read some of the the blogs and things that that I've either posted myself or been a part of posting or posted on behalf of someone else, I love to hear the different analogies and metaphors that people use to help them make sense of ideas about meaningfulness and meaningful PE Ty and I have talked about this and shared our own ones before, but on Anita and Mel's podcast, the metaphors or analogies that they have used to help them make sense of meaningful PE even some of the. Analogies or metaphors that Scott Kretchmar uses as well, like, you know, walking in through the gates of the kingdom type of thing, those the ways that people describe or use those metaphors and analogies to paint a picture for themselves and for other people about whatever idea it is, and in this case, obviously meaningful. PE, I think that that stands out to me as something that's that's really nice, that not only does it help other people relate to it or come to see it, but to me it's really what's the word? Well, yeah, I keep I've said cool. I don't say cool a lot, but I've said it a few times already, so I'll say it again, just how people are making meaningful PE their own. And I think putting your own metaphor or analogy to it helps to make it your own. You help to have some ownership of it. And we want other people to feel like they have some ownership of it and can make it work in ways that that makes sense to them and the people that they're working with, whether those are children or pre service teachers or whomever.

Douglas Gleddie: 6:12

Yeah, that's great. Tim Ty and I were joking that our New Year's resolution should be to not say that's great every time someone says something. So that's the last time. I'll throw that one in. But, yeah, I was just looking at, I can't remember who it was that commented on one of the LinkedIn posts on Scott crutch Mars episode, and just said, you know, life is story, and metaphors help us kind of bring the story to life and help make it real. So I that's one of the things that I really enjoyed, too. And I think it was Anita that did the braid, and, you know, putting these things together. And I thought that one was really cool, too. Ty, how about you?

Ty Riddick: 6:58

For me, it's I was going back and kind of review, and what were my key takeaways, just kind of from each episode. And what I found interesting is actually, if you were say you're a new teacher and you're like, I'm not really sure what meaningful is that I don't know where to start, my recommendation would actually be to listen to the episodes in reverse order, because I think Kyle and Riley start out with things that I think are really foundational, having strong relationships with kids, figuring out what it is that they want to do, and kind of having some flexibility in your planning, which was episode four and episode three, Jody really speaks to understanding, like what matters to your kids. And for her, what she found that really mattered was was kindness. And so even though we see the connection to some of the features of meaningful phys ed. The kids might have different verbiage for it. They're not going to refer to maybe, oh, motor competence is meaningful to me. They might just refer to it as getting better at something. And so if you just did those two things, got to know your students, build some flexibility, and found out what was really important or meaningful to your students, you'd really set yourself up, I think, really brilliantly to move forward. And then going into Episode Two, hearing from Anita and Mel, I mean, that's, I think, the, how do you do it? And listening to Mel talk about developing anchor charts to unpack like, what does it make? What is challenge? What does that feel like? What does it sound like in the gym? And listening to Anita talk about that, you know, before anything, before we talk about meaningfulness, we have to have culture. And even though meaningfulness is interested, I guess, in the individual experience, a lot of that is constructed based on that social environment. And again, I had the opportunity to observe her teach, so just to see those things come together, I think, yeah, it was super important. I wouldn't listen to the first episode. They already have triple the views of everybody else. So I'm sorry, Tim, like, we got to catch up somehow. But yeah, just the common like the progression in reverse of 432, and then I see the a lot of the bonus episodes with Scott, with Dale and cord, and even with Sarah and Lila is really supporting some of those things, looking at what that might look like in the outdoors, even Scott discussing like, Well, how do we manage competition in in our in our classes? I think it all kind of paints a really nice picture of of meaningful phys ed.

Douglas Gleddie: 9:14

Yeah, I like that. I like that order of listening. I think that's that's really valuable. What What struck me? I think so well, three things, I guess, and they, they kind of ebb and flow in the different episodes. But the first is just the vulnerability of the teacher guests that we've had just to be able to share. I tried this and it absolutely stunk. Or my previous practice was just not great. Like, like, Kyle was very open about that, and just said, I I wasn't the teacher I wanted to be. And part of it, it wasn't like it was his fault. That's how he was taught, that's the context he was in. But he just wanted to be something different, and then being able to, you know, engage. Students. And, you know, they used a lot of Google Forms before and after units to get a sense of things. And just realizing that, you know what, the kids really hate this. Why do they hate this? I never realized that. And so I think there's the vulnerability across and from the researchers too. There's some vulnerability about we don't, we don't know exactly where this is going we don't, you know, we have some good foundational pieces in there, but even the ambiguity of joy and delight and wrestling with that, I find, well meaningful to be honest. And then that's the other piece that I really like is, and we did this intentionally, and I wasn't sure how it would work, honestly, but kind of alternating the research to practice and research to practice. We've been able to do that so far in our episodes. We'll probably lean a little heavier on practice in the new year, not that we're going to neglect research, but I love that flow, and it's kind of that, you know, evidence based practice, and then practice based evidence. And just it keeps going back and forth the whole time. And the last piece, I think, from all the episodes that I've listened to, and I've listened to them all, is just that commitment to professional learning, whether it's from the researchers trying to tackle a different angle, whether it's from the teachers who are just trying to understand their students and get to a point of, you know, where they want to

Ty Riddick: 11:30

be, yeah, I wonder if, when we brought up Riley, I remember her critical like, what kind of led her down this path was a student who said, Thank you so much. She got a note from a student where the student where the student said, Thank you so much. I've learned all the rules of all the sports, thanks to you. And then she was like, Oh, wow. Like, that's great that I taught. This is what the student learned. But is that really what I want? Is that really what Phys Ed is about? And I wonder, does having a critical moment of reflection like that help lead people to meaningful phys ed. Because I think for me, as I've written about before, it was like the this feeling in reflection that something is missing. And so I'm and I know, and we're working with our champions here in Alberta. And I think Kelly shared in our meeting, Kelly Smith shared in our meeting, kind of the same thing. To what extent does that critical reflection help people get to meaningful visit, I'm not sure, Tim or Doug and and working with pre service teachers or the champions of Ontario, if that's been a similar thread for you guys as well, a little bit, I think,

Tim Fletcher: 12:32

yeah, how people approach it or come to it can be different. You know, for some of our the teachers that we've worked with it was it was us going to them to sort of prompt that reflection, whereas now that the idea is out there, I think people can sort of be a little bit more reflexive with it, but I do think it's a crucial element. And at the moment, I think that reflecting on your vision for for teaching, whatever that might be, I think that's the first step in in getting towards meaningful peace. So we've written a blog post about that, like in terms of getting started, and our step one is to really think about your your own vision for teaching physical education. And if there are ideas about meaningfulness, either partially or fully fleshed out within that vision, then it might make sense to you, and you can sort of go a little bit further to think about okay, so how can I use some of these ideas about features or pedagogies to help my vision be consolidated or to help my practice be changed in relation to my vision, or to change my vision from from what it was so reflecting on your vision, then I think is an absolutely crucial step. And as I said, probably we think it's that, that first step, and for teachers who don't have meaningfulness as a key part of their vision, that's okay, like there are multiple visions that people could could have, many of which are valid and could be argued that they're important. But if meaningfulness isn't really in there, then meaningful P might not be for you, and that's okay, but if it is, then it might be more likely that that you can sort of keep going and and maybe it helps you, as Doug said, and Steph has written this, this like resolve some of the ambiguities in your in your teaching, those bits that you're uncertain about, and start to sort of color those In a little bit. Yeah, I think that makes sense. I was interested in the episodes where, you know, we asked people, kind of, where they're going, what advice would you give to other people? And

Douglas Gleddie: 14:53

so many times, like the teachers on the podcast have been, there's a bit of a mess. Because there's either like, this is what I was looking for. I'm already doing some of this, but this gives me that rationale, it gives me the background, and it gives me some, well, for lack of a better term, some evidence to bring forward to my co workers, to my administration, and for others, it's very much, oh, I didn't realize this was even an option for me. And so I think, Tim, you're, you're right that reflecting on the vision, what is your vision? What is the purpose for what you do? And you know, I've, I've said this. I say it to my students every year. I've said it at conferences, and like, if the purpose of Phys Ed is to make kids fit, then let's just have them run or walk a lap for a half an hour every day, and they will be healthier 100% they'll freaking hate it, and they'll hate physical activity for life, but they'll be fitter in that time. And so what is our purpose? And I do think that one of the benefits of exploring the meaningful PE framework, in whatever way you choose to explore it, is that it does cause you to look at what is the purpose of what we're doing, whether that's already written in your curriculum or not. And it's interesting to see meaningfulness kind of bleed into the new curriculum documents that are coming out, which is great. But I also wonder with like, I do an exercise with my our master's program here, which I give, you know, very unapologetic shout outs to podcasts all the time, so I should stop. But in our first class, we look, I changed it this year. It's foundations of like philosophical foundations of health and phys ed. And this year I chose to look at three foundational philosophies. So salutogenes, which I was first introduced to by Michele kurstad, and then just the whole concept of joy, which, of course, Scott crutchmar is in there, but there's others writing about that too. And then John Dewey's theory of experience. And I find it interesting that when we explore these that I we save meaningful PE for a different course, but that idea of meaningfulness comes out when we look at those philosophies. So I think it's right in there with these foundational pieces and can help kind of that, that that underpinning of this is why we do what we do.

Ty Riddick: 17:15

Well, Doug, you've you said that so succinctly that I'm not sure how Tim or I are supposed to follow that up, you had both mentioned this idea of a vision or a philosophy of teaching, and I guess you could say that a dominant vision for PE has been fairly sports centric, with the students who have traditionally thrived in PE being the students who are more confident in sports and maybe already see phys ed or Sports as meaningful already. And this came up recently in a discussion with colleagues, where concern was expressed that meaningful phys ed, or at least their perception of it, might be great for those who have not always loved PE or not found it to be meaningful, but there was concern over how a change in vision and by nature pedagogy might impact the students who already love PE. And I think this is a question that was also raised by Alex Becky and Steph in a blog, which I'll link below, about where next for meaningful PE. So I'm curious, how would you respond to someone who had concern that a shift towards meaningfulness might not serve those who've already found PE meaningful. I imagine that those people might be thinking that this, that meaningful peers more geared towards people who don't find it meaningful, that it would be the perception, yeah, yeah, okay, that I think some people have yeah and understandable. And certainly I would say, at least from my perspective,

Tim Fletcher: 18:43

that would be the group that we are probably more in need of, approaches like this, which, which are geared towards that, but, but I would also say that the at least when people like Deidre myself and Stephanie and Doug and Jody whomever, who were in the early stages of sort of fleshing this idea out, was that our intention was not to exclude people who already find physical education and physical activity meaningful, but there are a number of ways that those types of students can be included in the class in ways that don't exclude the other people. One of the things that I'm becoming more convinced about or passionate about in terms of, why should we do meaningful PE is to help people, help all students, understand what it is exactly that they find. Quite meaningful about movement. And so for students who are highly competent, for example, it may not be that they love it because they are very good. It may be that they love it because their closest friends are people who they're on teams with, or who they've performed in dances with, or who you know they've done. So it's actually the social side of it that stands out to them, and from the drive or motivation to be with others, they've become very good. But it's it's really the social side of things that that keeps them going. And I think helping students become aware of what it is they like and don't like, then they can start to advocate for themselves. Now there are many students who do find the competitive aspect the meaningful part of it, and that's okay, so providing opportunities for them to frame a task or an activity so that it's meaningful for them, while also acknowledging that it might not be meaningful for the other people in the class that they're Working with. So started to negotiate those types of things and coming to a to a more social, socially aware understanding of it. I think that's something that that I'm really wrestling with a lot at the moment, and and starting to believe in more and more that it's trying to help students become better evaluators, I suppose, or assessors of their own experiences, and again, those of others. I asked

Ty Riddick: 21:52

doing some interviews with some of my students. And then one girl I was talking to, I asked her about, you know, how do you find reflecting about these things? And then she said, like, she said that it wasn't negative. But she was like, we do it. We do it a lot. And I was like, okay, but, and I was like, but once we do it, do you actually keep thinking about it in the future, even if, like, I'm not always bringing it up. We're not always talk reflecting on these features. She goes, yeah, like, once I, at the start of the year, you brought it up. And now every time we, you know, we do, like, I'm I'm still thinking about those things. And I asked her, like, do you really, do you consider yourself a reflective person? She goes, Yeah, I am. And then she kind of jokes, but I know my friends aren't.

Douglas Gleddie: 22:31

So which was interesting, how, yeah, once you kind of lay that foundation of these are the things that are meaningful. Can be meaningful to you. This student in particular, continues to think about those things, even if I'm not always being explicit about it, yeah, and that I mean, that speaks to that shared vocabulary, right? When you give that opportunity, and to me, it's about, and we've talked about this across the podcast, and it's come up in the research papers, but that idea of making some things that might be implicit and making them explicit, so we're giving students some language to say, yeah, what I like about slow pitch is the fact that there's time to chat with people when we're waiting to hit. And that's great, right? And we so I think that's really important. And that, yeah, I like, I love the connection to the reflection again, I really look and it's a great question. Ty, because I do think that to some extent, the framework is helpful, and most of the teachers we've talked to, especially at the I would say at the secondary level, more than Elementary, they come to the framework because they want to reach those kids that don't like phys ed. So that's the reason they come, but it's not the reason they stay. And I think the reason they stay is because it is the ultimate tool of differentiation, because you can literally meet every kid's needs in some way with these different opportunities. And then as the framework expands, and you know, Jody's work included a like the students found competition to be meaningful. Good, a good portion of the students did, and so recognizing that, being able to communicate with others. And then I there's a specific instance, and it's been a long time since I've been in charge of my own class, but I used to do an option course called extra PE. We call it x PE. And so we did winter sports in the winter, and we did our activities. So in the winter, we did hockey, ice hockey, I have to say, for our international listeners, we did curling, which is also an ice. We did broom ball, also an ice. And then we did some winter hiking and that kind of stuff. But there was a kid in my grade nine class who was a very high level hockey player at, you know, age 15, he was playing, I kind of remember what the the tier he was in, but it was the top tier in where we were. And I was like, I don't really know how to help this kid, because he's so skilled. And so, you know, I would help all the other kids. And I I did an evaluation of form of reflection at the end of the class, and I had. Them just evaluate me and my teaching. And it was all anonymous, but I knew right away it was this kid, and he said you never helped me once, and I realized that it was a relational thing for him. And I was just like, devastated, but I also learned, right so you you kind of go. So I do think what you just said Tim, and then what you followed up with Ty is really important that you can, you can reach all those kids that may take different methods, different time. It may be a bit of a mystery for a while, like, I still love the quote from from Kyle's research where students said, I don't know what you did different this year, but keep doing it. You know, I don't know what you did, but just keep doing it. And so sometimes, okay, that's the feedback we get, and away we go.

Ty Riddick: 25:48

Yeah, I know this is supposed to be a reflection on the previous episodes, so I won't say who our next guest is in January, but one of the questions that comes up is his clientele, I think was he describes as future d1 athletes. And one of the questions that I ask him is about, so how do student, these students who, again, already probably super competitive, highly competent? How do do they take uptake meaningful phys ed? And I won't reveal the answer, because you'll have to tune in on January 6, I think for that, but they take it quite well. So appreciate you guys answering that question. Because I think sometimes what I hear from skeptics is that, well, if we prioritize the spirit, the experience of the kids who who haven't always had a positive experience in phys ed, do we risk losing the ones who have? And is that, would that be a successful approach if you're exchanging the experiences for one for the experience of the other? But as you both said, I don't think it's an either or proposition. I think, as Doug, I think you described as the ultimate differentiator, I think allows it to really be something that is engaging of everybody.

Douglas Gleddie: 26:58

And I will just this is a total divergence from the topic, but I will mention, if you look at the top of every episode, there's a little underlying thing that says, send us a text, and unfortunately, we can't reply to those. But if, if you're listening and you have a question that you want answered, or you have a guest that you're say, hey, we would really like you to get this guest on. Or something topical, like, how does meaningful P apply to those people who already love P? You know, please, please let us know. Or, of course, you can always just send us an email not to but just just know we can't respond to the text somebody had asked me about which, which of the books from our cohort to buy first, and I couldn't respond. So I would say it doesn't matter by either one. But before we get to our New Year's resolutions, is there anything else that's just kind of burning on either of your minds about the episodes or maybe where we should go in 2025 with Season One,

Tim Fletcher: 28:06

I I've really enjoyed the the practical perspectives of teachers who are on the front lines, for lack of a better term that that provides so much more benefit, I think, in terms of how people are finding these ideas useful, so that they don't just remain ideas. They are ideas that can be used or helpful. So in future episodes. Of course, I look forward to all of them, but I really look forward to hearing how people are making use of it, and how it might help their their teaching, but also how it they feel it might have helped them to to reach students that were previously a little bit out of reach, or whether they've deepened their engagement. I'm mixing my metaphors here deep in their engagement, with some students who are already engaged. Go ahead, Doug, I was just going to put on a flippin comment that just remember that, you know, metaphors, it's not rocket surgery, so it's Yeah, right.

Ty Riddick: 29:15

And for me, I again, I've really enjoyed I've learned so much kind of from every episode. I pick even bonus episodes, I pick up a lot that's helped me in my teaching. And I would just love to hear from and most of our teacher guests are North American based Canada, the United States, so which is great, but I'd love to hear what meaningful phys ed looks like in different different countries, different contexts. So again, as you said, Doug, if you if there's somebody that you think would really be great for the podcast. We'd love to hear from them, and I'd love to selfishly benefit from from what they are doing in their classes. If I might just do a shout out at the moment to colleague, Dr Marcus Godoy, in Brazil. He is doing just that. Ty and.

Tim Fletcher: 30:00

Working with teachers and students in Portuguese speaking countries. So I believe he's working with teachers and students in Brazil, Portugal and Mozambique at the moment, to understand the different ways that teachers and students make sense of what is meaningful about physical education there, so even transferring into different languages. Yeah, that that's really interesting. And Marcus is doing some great work, leading, leading that work.

Douglas Gleddie: 30:29

Yeah, he's on our he's on our list, along with a few others. We've got a pretty, pretty long list, but we're like, Ty said, we're always looking for, you know, your recommendations, more people to to get on the get on the show here. Well, I think it's time for our New Year's Eve. Well, New Year's resolutions, not New Year's Eve resolutions, but I'm going to, since I've been kind of sort of hosting this, I'm going to reserve mine for last with host privilege. So I'll let Ty and Tim do a rock paper scissors to see who goes first.

Ty Riddick: 31:05

I don't, I don't mind going first, Tim. Yeah. I mean, I had the the ability to know that this question was coming, so I've had time to think about it. But as I said last year, we did a lot of research and interviews with mostly my grade eight classes, and you know, their experience with meaningful Zed was generally very positive, but I know, like you're always at the mercy of who consents to participate in the study. And I had, and we had a kind of male students of all different experiences, all different backgrounds, which was great and but most of our female participants were, I would say, ones that are like your your multi sport athletes highly engaged. And there was maybe a group of students who maybe haven't always had the most positive experience that I wasn't able to hear from. So this year, that's what I focused on a little bit. We spent some time interviewing them last week, and what things that they mentioned would be really helpful for them were two, two things. First was often when I teach, it can be democratic in the sense that I'm differentiating for the skills the kids want to develop, or differentiating for their goals. Maybe they're choosing between different activities. But the one thing, as a couple students had mentioned, is that we tend to move at a similar cadence practice these skills for this amount of time. Sure, it's differentiated school oriented, but then we get to when it's time to participate in the game. Again, the students have choices of maybe what competitive level modifications they want to use in the game, but that cadence is often controlled by me, and they said it'd be great that if when you decide to it's time to play a game, if you gave the option to not participate in the game and continue to work on the skills. So they were the ones who were deciding when they were ready to play. I was like, Oh, that's really insightful. So that's one of my resolutions, is just to give them more agency in that way of deciding when they are ready or they feel they're ready to participate. And the second thing they mentioned was it could be more of a guess, a democratic sense of time. We've been in this unit for like, typically, teachers schedule the units that is going to start here and end here. But is that? Is there a flexible time of where the students who are really, you know, enjoying or really finding this meaningful, they continue with that previous unit, while the other students maybe get a head start on the next so that was just a couple things that come up so and things I haven't really explored previously. So yeah, my juniors resolution is just to kind of explore new forms of, I guess, democratic practice with with my students. That's a little bit unfair Ty, because I can't follow up with anything nearly as good or as tightly aligned to the podcast as that.

Tim Fletcher: 33:46

Initially I was going to say my news resolution is the same as it is every year, which is to stretch every day. And I have said that I think for 20 years. It's a little bit ironic, considering that, a lot of people say that the thing they like most about meaningful peers, it's flexibility. So there, there's a tie in, maybe, but one of the things that I guess I'll commit to, if that's a resolution, I'm not sure if, if the synonym is that it's a commitment, but I'm committing to documenting and sharing different ways that teachers use meaningful PE like we've interviewed teachers, for example, and try or observe teachers and tried to represent that teaching in blog posts or papers through your podcast, that's another way that we can represent those types of things. But we're also looking to capture some snippets on video to be able to share those with the world. It's been something that we've said. We're going to do for quite a long time, but I think we're in a place in 2025 to be able to do that, whether those will be edited and and ready to go by the end of 2025 I'm not sure, but, but that's something i i love to see teachers work, represented and for people to engage with and and clearly there's an appetite from from people to hear from teachers and to observe and to see and all of those sorts of things. So I'd like to try to keep contributing to that, but in different ways. Nice

Douglas Gleddie: 35:37

finish for you. Doug, Big Finish. Big Finish. Well, the stretching thing, yeah, every year, I think for so I've I'll split mine into two. The first is for the podcast, and it kind of aligns with what you're saying. Ty I think to expand our list of guests outside of North America and to which we are doing. We've got people on board, scheduled to interview and things like that coming up. So that's good. But I want to keep, I think, not just, not just different countries, but different languages, different settings. We had a conversation here about whether we should provide a, you know, a transcript for the episodes. And Tim, you made the really good point of you know, it's often easier to if English is your second or third or fourth language, it's often easier to read it than to listen to it. And then also, you can just cut and paste into Google Translate, and that'll give you a gist too. So I think that's something that we'll look at doing, just the mechanics of it. We're hope, and I'll speak for Ty and myself with this one, but we would just like to keep improving our skills as hosts and to say less and encourage other people to say more. You know, we do have our opinions, and we'll put them out there, but the purpose of this podcast is to highlight the work of other people, so I think we're getting better at that, if you listen to our first episode, as opposed to, maybe not this one, this one doesn't count, but other ones. And then I think, on a on a personal kind of research based note, what, what drew me to meaningful PE and what drew me actually to research, was this nebulous concept of joy, and I have done some work on it, but I would like to target that more in some way. I'm not sure how, yet, I'm not but I do think the links to having the vocabulary to understand when joy is happening. We've talked before about, you know, you can't just kind of bring a group of kids together in phys ed class and say, Okay, we're going to create some joy here, like it does happen sometimes. And Mel mentioned that in her podcast episode two of you, it's kind of like you look at your partner, go, don't say anything. Look at what the good stuff is happening. This is awesome, but I do think it's connected to the embodied nature of physical education. So I would just like to explore that part a little more. Maybe it's a maybe it's a bit of a meta analysis on joy, which is kind of cold and tasteless in research, but researchy, but it's a foundation of a place to start. Or maybe it's just inquiring more with teachers to see where they find or with students. So I'll see where that goes. Is that a big enough finish for you Ty?

Ty Riddick: 38:21

that's great. Oh no, I said it

Douglas Gleddie: 38:27

that's okay. You have like 11 more days to say that. So 12 more days to say that. So you're okay. It's doing so well, yeah, that's good.

Tim Fletcher: 38:37

Well, thanks Tim for for joining us on this little bit of an unconventional episode here, but I've enjoyed it, and I hope our listeners do as well. Well. Thank you for having me and and, well, from my point of view, you've come across the season professionals from the start, so you know you're doing a great job and and the guests that you've had on are just brilliant. So I look forward to things continuing over the next little while and and to keeping on tuning in. Sounds good. Well, from us to everyone out there, Merry Christmas. Happy Holidays, and we will see you in the new year. You